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 Best Finishes of 2012 
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Wicked compilation. :twisted:



Not surprisingly, there's no F1.

I wonder, has anyone gotten statistics on how many last lap passes have ever happened in F1? I can only think of one in recent memory, and it was Jenson winning at Montreal--and it was because Vettel fucked up.

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John Culbert, Jr.
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Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:29 am
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kobayashi on alguesuari valencia 2011 , raikkonen on fisichella suzuka 2005 for win .. and that's probably it, in last decade

Great video

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Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:12 am
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Bojan M wrote:
kobayashi on alguesuari valencia 2011 , raikkonen on fisichella suzuka 2005 for win .. and that's probably it, in last decade

Great video


Yeah sorry, I meant FOR the win. Or for that matter even a podium.

I forgot about Kimi though! That was a good one.

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John Culbert, Jr.
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Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:43 am
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This is sadly missed in F1.


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Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:08 am
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The best part of the video is the Japanese commentary on Sato Sato'ing himself at Indy. :lol:

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John Culbert, Jr.
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Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:11 am
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JCulbert Jr wrote:
Wicked compilation. :twisted:



Not surprisingly, there's no F1.

I wonder, has anyone gotten statistics on how many last lap passes have ever happened in F1? I can only think of one in recent memory, and it was Jenson winning at Montreal--and it was because Vettel fucked up.


Awesome video, thanks. A question about 29:00. Is that type of racing really allowed? That was kind of an outrageous move.

Moar videos please?


Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:12 pm
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I have no idea what the Spanish guys are saying during the Montreal Nationwide race, but it sounds hilarious. :lol:


Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:37 pm
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Chris James wrote:

Awesome video, thanks. A question about 29:00. Is that type of racing really allowed? That was kind of an outrageous move.

Moar videos please?



It's interesting that you didn't mention the same situation happening with Jason Plato and Matt Neal beating the shit out of each other for the win early on that video--is it because it was on a road course? :mrgreen:

So anyway, first, watch this video:



That is widely considered to be the "best race in NASCAR history." Although personally I like Ambrose vs. Keselowski at Watkins Glen in the first video better. Regardless, it's the best of the best.

My immediate answer is yes, abso-fucking-lutely. It's thrilling, it's exciting, it's two drivers not giving an inch and both having a burning desire to win.

In the case of the Truck finish you pointed out, let me paint a picture:

1. Kyle Busch (#18, the yellow truck) is the most dominant driver in the modern Truck series. But he's also an invader: he's never been a full-time driver, he's a Sprint Cup driver who regularly shows up at the minor leagues to beat on underfunded teams and/or rookies. That's a whole argument for another day, but suffice to say, it pisses a lot of teams, drivers and fans off that he, and other Cup drivers, do this. To word it a different way: what if Sebastien Vettel showed up at the first round of the Formula 3 Euro series, with his full Red Bull crew and an F3 car built by Red Bull, and raced?

2. It was the season finale, at one of the best tracks for racing in the series. Last chance to make a first impression, basically.

3. Cale Gale (#33, the dude who won) is a journeyman driver who has only run a few full time seasons in the series, due to lack of sponsorship. When he doesn't race, he's often a spotter. His team was woefully underfunded, but like most Truck Series drivers, he had the talent and the will to win. It was his first career win. To illustrate how difficult it is for "the little guy" to get a leg up thanks to the Cup "invaders"... That same driver lost his ride for this season, and has resorted to being a crew chief for a Nationwide series team to keep a job.

Now those three things generally don't mean a thing in terms of beating and banging--it can happen with two series' champions racing for their 20000th win too. I'm just saying, there's his motivation.

It all comes down to your philosophy I guess; some people like contact in motorsports, others do not. Do you think hockey should have no checking? Should football have no tackles? In the case of hockey, you can have a game without a single hit and to some people, it's still fun and exciting. To others it isn't.

For me, what we saw there is a picture-perfect example of when contact is okay. Hungry journeyman driver going for his first ever win, and do it, beating Kyle Busch, one of the winningest drivers in NASCAR history (across 3 divisions anyway)? Damn right I'd use the fenders.

I've done it myself on the track. Rarely, and never wrecking. For ME anyway, that's the key difference. If it's for all the marbles, the last few laps, for the win, hell yeah lay a bumper or fender to him--as long as you are able to MOVE him without WRECKING him. If you can't, you shouldn't do it. Earnhardt was famous for that, he didn't give a shit if you were just knocked sideways or if you went backwards upside down on fire; if you were holding him up for the win, you're gone. And that's why you either loved or hated him.

The same goes for this league. d0gzpaw actually used that exact same move on Cam Porter at Sebring a few seasons ago for a podium. Last turn, last lap, squeezed him to the wall, Cam scrubbed the paint off his fender, d0g hung on for the spot. It was exciting, it was thrilling, and half of the league condemned it while the other half cheered.

A year or so before that, Sauve and I raced for the win at Martinsville in the VHR NASCAR series on Wednesday. The two of us led a bunch of laps, spent the whole race nose-to-tail, it was epic. But Martinsville is a single lane, notoriously difficult to pass at. With 5-6 laps to go, he gave me just a little tap on the bumper to get me loose, we went side-by-side for the next two corners, and he got the pass and took the win. I was a little miffed as a driver, but as exciting as it was, as an admin I thought it was fantastic. Stockcar racing at Martinsville at its best.

You either like it or you don't, I guess. But for me, the key ingredient is being able to beat and bang, swap paint, and potentially move another car, WITHOUT wrecking it. There's a big difference between aggressive driving and wrecking.

It's the same argument against full course caution flags; some hate them no matter what the danger to the competitors and would just rather take the risk of massive wrecks and injury, others like them both for cleaning up the mess after a wreck, AND for increasing the excitement and unpredictability of the race. I guarantee if rFactor (or more accurately, the track makers) had caution flags and pace cars WORK properly, this league would use them. We did in VHR and it was great.

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Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:21 pm
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yeah, i know the thread title is for 2012, but nothing beats "The Pass" for last-lap drama. Watching the video again reminds me of some of the great racing we've had here at efnet with all the mistakes made several drivers in the closing minutes. It's the kind of move we make in sim racing all the time! I still get goosebumps watching the pass.



I was there at turn 2 and remembered going "WTF just happened" like everyone else who couldn't see Zanardi's pass on TV at the time. Ahh, the days before DVR and weak-ass Indycars...

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Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:25 pm
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And for an alternative example of beating and banging that is NOT okay, here's Earnhardt's infamous "rattle his cage" moment at Bristol:


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Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:33 pm
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Oh HO, we're breaking out previous years now! Then we Said-heads can't forget this one! Mad Max almost stole it from us. 8-)


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John Culbert, Jr.
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Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:48 pm
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JCulbert Jr wrote:
In the case of the Truck finish you pointed out, let me paint a picture:



Damn dude, when you put it that way, hell yeah! I didn't realize there could be such a dynamic dramatic back story. I don't know shit about racing!

You guys will probably laugh, but I'm not a racing fan, just a racing game/simulator fan. But I plan to remedy that. Can I watch a wide variety of races just by getting the Speed Channel? I seem only to be able to find Sprint Cup races otherwise, but I want to see some GT and other types.


Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:59 pm
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Cameron Wagner wrote:
yeah, i know the thread title is for 2012, but nothing beats "The Pass" for last-lap drama. Watching the video again reminds me of some of the great racing we've had here at efnet with all the mistakes made several drivers in the closing minutes. It's the kind of move we make in sim racing all the time! I still get goosebumps watching the pass.



I was there at turn 2 and remembered going "WTF just happened" like everyone else who couldn't see Zanardi's pass on TV at the time. Ahh, the days before DVR and weak-ass Indycars...


Wow, no penalty for cutting the track so much?


Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:01 pm
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They let Zanardi get away with it that time as I don't think there was an explicit rule from CART saying he couldn't do that. No one completed a pass like that at the Corkscrew ever (at least on four wheels), so after that race CART made that part of the track a no-go zone for their races. Portland's Festival curves are a better example. Same thing for many street courses with chicanes.

Like any controversial pass, there were arguments for both sides of cutting or not-cutting there. Both sides would agree that a pass like that takes some big nards. Bryan Herta was just in complete shock during the post-race interview after having his first win in sight. That was classic.

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Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:22 pm
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Yeah I'm pretty sure it was the first of it's kind like that as Vale's pass of Casey was many, many years later... I wanna say 2008 but he never acknowledged Alex's original move on Bryan there after the fact, which pissed me off to no end at the time. Sorry Valentino, you're not always the "original" with everything you do. :P

I was there too Cameron but was lucky enough to be in a certain hospitality area with TV's so I knew the scoop when it happened. Still though my VCR was diligently whirring away at home so I got to see all later that night as usual.

and John, I always thought that the '79 Daytona 500 was the best Nascar race of all time. ;)


Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:29 pm
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Chris James wrote:
Damn dude, when you put it that way, hell yeah! I didn't realize there could be such a dynamic dramatic back story. I don't know shit about racing!

You guys will probably laugh, but I'm not a racing fan, just a racing game/simulator fan. But I plan to remedy that. Can I watch a wide variety of races just by getting the Speed Channel? I seem only to be able to find Sprint Cup races otherwise, but I want to see some GT and other types.


You picked the worst possible time to become a race fan. SPEED will cease to exist in August, replaced by "FOX Sports 1." :roll:

All the NASCAR coverage stays the same, and HOPEFULLY Grand-Am Rolex, but the rest most likely will be gone. So, it's back to the internet for us.

On the bright side, Australian V8 Supercars post every race of their season on youtube, 1-2 weeks delayed, so as long as you avoid the Australian motorsports news, it's very enjoyable to watch there.

I dunno where I'm going to get my BTCC or DTM fix now though. :cry:

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Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:43 pm
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D Newman wrote:
and John, I always thought that the '79 Daytona 500 was the best Nascar race of all time. ;)


Nah, that was "the best Pier 6 Brawl in the backstretch infield."

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John Culbert, Jr.
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Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:44 pm
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speaking of.... look what I just found. Forget youtube. :shock:

http://www.darcyf1.com/

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John Culbert, Jr.
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Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:56 pm
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Ok, guys weigh in on this one. This is (crappy quality) in-car video from my uncle's FE car. It is the last lap of a national race at Blackhawk Farms for the win. The red car being passed in T1 is not for position. In my opinion it's just a racing incident with two guys really going for the win. It does show the difference when "amateurs" in open wheel cars bang into each other and "pros" with fenders do it. I just think there is a difference in what is ok based on the type of cars being raced.



Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:23 am
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Hard to tell with only the one camera angle. By watching your uncle's L/F tire in relation to the edge of the track surface, he doesn't really turn down significantly, while the blue car drifts over to the left. So, blue car's fault. And frankly, since they were approaching a corner, if it was a corner that requires slowing or braking, he was about to brake-check the shit out of him anyway, which is pretty dirty.

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Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:44 pm
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