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 2015 Bathurst 1000 Classic - Upcoming Race Discussion 
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Off the grille and into the fire, Round 4 of the 2015 Efnet Sim Racing Endurance Series will be upon us soon.

The Bathurst 1000 has been a favorite, if often controversial event, mostly centered around the perceived dominance of one car or another.

The Mustang GT won the race two years in row, was placed in its own class with the Holden Commodore for 2014 and no one raced either one, leaving the Nissan Syline apparently at the top of the heap even if for no better reasons than it won the race in the hands of alien-ish Chris James and having the highest top speed.

My opinion is that there almost certainly will always be a best car for Bathurst unless everyone is in the same car. I don't want to do any tweaking of the cars nor the race distance but I would love feedback on how to tweak the classes, if at all.

This is a tricky race further complicated by tires that go off very quickly, like dry asphalt to rain to ice but those who have participated are mostly in tune so, yes, the car helps but it still largely comes down to the drivers.

I figure that we have till the end of August to firm things up so please help us out with what you see as the best way forward.

I'll give us another week to focus solely on Enduracers but starting Monday August 24 my intention is to have the Touring Masters mod with Bathurst on the server for Mondays.

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Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:18 am
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We should use our Enduracers cars for this.

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Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:27 am
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Another Annual Endurance Series race with Enduracers seems wrong, throws tradition completely out the window and would be just feel like another Enduracers enduro. Arguably too easy, too?

For arguments sake, GT1, GT2 and Flat 6? (Pro, Sportsman and Open).

I don't feel that we MUST stay with Touring Masters but it would be nice in the way of different for it to be a one-off mod so long as we use it year after year. That's what we have now, it'd just be nice for the cars to be unquestionably balanced. It used to be that simply finishing was an accomplishment but it seems like that's not so much the challenge anymore as we've all improved so much.

Not knowing any better at the moment, maybe three classes would be better if we stick with Touring Masters. I don't know that it needs to be Open, Pro and Sportman as that may prevent someone from driving his favorite car but hopefully we could match the cars up better with three classes. The Touring Masters mod takes getting used to but the limited adjustments are a bonus, IMO.

I'll re-familiarize myself with Touring Masters ASAP so that I can offer a better opinion.

I don't really know what the alternatives could be. We'll almost certainly be back to Bathurst with the Trans Am series in the winter so no need to run those cars plus Le Mans is HGT.

I dabbled in that VirtuaLM mod that came out recently but barely scratched the surface and the sheer number of cars and the performance disparity made me dizzy.

V8 Supercars! Maybe that's the answer, with two classes. Can't get any more Australian than that.

I'll rummage through my mods to see if I can come up with anything else, I think that there may be a handful of possibilities.

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Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:43 am
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I was able to spend some more time on this and here are some more thoughts.

HGT is a fantastic mod.

Enduracers is a fantastic mod.

Both are the final rF1 versions.

We're unlikely to ever exhaust either of them.

Touring Masters is very crude in comparison to either and without an official race or my admin duties, I wouldn't spend any time driving any of the cars; not a thrill.

There was no interest in the Great Canadian race, very little in the Formula Ford Festival and the Spa 1000 didn't seem that great as far as post-race enthusiasm. VLN Nordschliefe is generally a hit but year after year the feeling is that something needs to be done with some of the cars and classes.

Our big main Sunday series are HGT and Enduracers.

What if we focused completely on HGT and Enduracers for ALL our events?

Doing so would save everyone time and defray time spent; what you learn practicing and racing special event translates to the season championships and your regular season skin could be your special event skin and vice versa, for examples.

There are many cars that have never been raced by us in HGT 1.96 and I'm not against vintage racing on modern tires so with a very simple tire grip increase we could have the incredible HGT models and excellent dynamics and steering feel with modern grip (DF notwithstanding) so that we don't completely rely on Enduracers for the Endurance Series events where we currently enjoy higher grip levels than HGT offers. The possibilities are endless and I'd expect more grip to make some of those cars really come alive dynamically (witness the Ford Falcon T/A lofting its inside front tire and imagine feeling the tire touching back down).

It's also been on my mind to encourage everyone to dream up special events for off weekends (which will be more plentiful than in past years, especially once we get in sync with the calendar) where any of us could come up with a meritorious idea and we admins would help to make an official race of it on an off weekend. Those, practically speaking, need to be isolated to HGT and Enduracers so being fully dedicated to those mods throughout our series would make those off weekend special events more accessible and palatable through guys having more experience with the cars proposed. Endless possibilities, here, too.

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Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:29 am
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Tom Lory wrote:
Arguably too easy, too?


Tom Lory wrote:
It used to be that simply finishing was an accomplishment but it seems like that's not so much the challenge anymore as we've all improved so much.


Shit, I may have earned myself a DNF

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Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:38 am
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I love the TM mod. Its different to ER and HGT which gives us a welcome break from them. Grip is good, cars are great, FFB not too bad. I would be very sad to see us do Bathurst in another mod.

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Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:41 am
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If you want to consider V8SC, we are enjoying the new rF1 RSM V8 mod over at GBR. A couple of the guys involved in making the mod race with us on Wednesday nights.

The cars feel a bit better than the old ORSM V8s however RSM made their mod friendly to drive so the cars aren't nearly impossible like iRacing's V8.

The Volvo and maybe the Mercedes aren't 100% done (still race ready though) but the rest of the cars (Ford, Holden and Nissan) are.

Tom, let me know if you're interested and want to evaluate and I'll give you a download link.


Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:49 pm
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I'd love to try it.

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Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:02 pm
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Tom Lory wrote:
I'd love to try it.


Here you go

http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/2 ... -1-Updated

We run it with the Livery add-on.


Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:21 pm
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Thank you.

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Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:26 pm
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What about F1 1979 ? Great old fashion :P

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Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:05 pm
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No.

Open wheel seems to be just a smidgen more popular than circle track plus we'd like everyone to finish the race not almost nobody.

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Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:10 am
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The TM mod works but like Tom said seems a bit dated and there is always a car that best in what ever grouping we do.

I like the breaks from the HGT mod so while yes easier to just race a special race with them and not have to learn a different mod for one race I'd vote for running other mods.

So having said all that I'm liking the idea of us running V8's at Bathurst, I've run many different V8 mods over the years some being great. I do have a vintage cars V8 mod, think the cars are from the 70's could be a nice blend.

And no open wheel mods, don't get me wrong I like driving most of them and yes the GP79 mod is good. Unless everyone gets well experienced with the mod it doesn't work for our league racing, just too many DNF's.

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Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:46 pm
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Oooh, boy, not exactly consensus :lol:

I've basically never driven the ORSM (?) V-8 Supercars before doing a lap at Bathurst earlier in the week. It sounded great but HEAVY understeer and really easy to loop out under acceleration.

I started adjusting to be quickly overwhelmed by the range of adjustments or rather the staggering increments for the available adjustments, ie, 50 different springs.

I expect that I'd get used to all that and have the impression that it's a great mod but I am looking forward to trying the new rF1 RSM V8 mod that Dale mentioned and linked above. I like the connection to GBR and that they are friendly with the guys who created the mod, might even get some spillover to us from GBR's weekday series.

Just a thought.

I'll probably have some others when I get a chance to load up some mods that haven't made it into any of my rFactor installations.

Another thing to consider is that there is probably room in the schedule to add another Endurance Series event so consider what that could be and what mod would be most appropriate, ie, 2.5 Hours of Thunderhill to mimic the 25 Hours of Thunderhill, maybe with Miatas (most raced car in the world, I've read) or Civics or ?????. Toyota AE86 are RHD unfortunately but it's possible to make to distinct classes with the "upgrades" and they support Real Feel.

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Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:39 pm
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RSM +1 great mod!


Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:12 pm
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I spent about an hour with the RSM V8 Supercars.

At this point, I like much better than the OSRM V8 Supercars.

Good to great steering feel with Real Feel and probably whatever settings I use for HGT.

Lap times probably under 2:09 about 8 seconds quicker than Touring Masters and maybe 3 or 4 seconds off Enduracers GT2 from 2014 and maybe 4-6 off the current GT2 cars.

I encourage everyone to give it a try, great mod to have in your collection plus it's certainly a very viable replacement for Touring Masters. Aussie track, Aussie touring cars, more than likely simply pick your favorite car and away you go.

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Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:52 am
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If we are going away from touring cars, how about a scratch series mod, like the Porsche Carrara Cup? Theres different classes in it, like the Mobil Supercup with minimal adjustments and another class too.

And yes, the RSM V8's are far nicer than the ORSM ones, IMHO.

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Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:08 am
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RSM is a cool Mod, Im racing it at GBR and having a good time.
Never liked the ORSM Mod, in fact aways hated.

I really hope they update the Mercedes and Volvo soon, as those 2 cars looks a bit off compared with the Holden and the Ford.
I think the Nissan needs a bit of work aswell.


Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:31 am
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Chris Tarboton wrote:
If we are going away from touring cars, how about a scratch series mod, like the Porsche Carrara Cup? Theres different classes in it, like the Mobil Supercup with minimal adjustments and another class too.

And yes, the RSM V8's are far nicer than the ORSM ones, IMHO.


I'm leery of forcing guys to drive rear engine Porsches. It's arguable that it behooves everyone to get comfortable as they are missing out.

If we did, though, why not simply the Enduracers Flat 6? There are hundreds of skin available with the Flat 6 skinpack.

At some point, I personally would like to get more comfortable with front drive and feel like we should run at least one special event with front drive cars but another thing I'm leery of forcing on others. I'd say that's a much larger adjustment than a 911 type car even if safer to drive...

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Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:55 pm
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Tom Lory wrote:
Chris Tarboton wrote:
If we are going away from touring cars, how about a scratch series mod, like the Porsche Carrara Cup? Theres different classes in it, like the Mobil Supercup with minimal adjustments and another class too.

And yes, the RSM V8's are far nicer than the ORSM ones, IMHO.


I'm leery of forcing guys to drive rear engine Porsches. It's arguable that it behooves everyone to get comfortable as they are missing out.

If we did, though, why not simply the Enduracers Flat 6? There are hundreds of skin available with the Flat 6 skinpack.

At some point, I personally would like to get more comfortable with front drive and feel like we should run at least one special event with front drive cars but another thing I'm leery of forcing on others. I'd say that's a much larger adjustment than a 911 type car even if safer to drive...
Totally agree Tom. I've driven a TON of Porsche cars in all manner of mods since I got RF in 2007 so some are great and found easy to drive but others are very Porsche like and takes a bit to get used to if at all. The Porsche Carrara Cup is good and the cars drive good if I remember right. Front wheel drive cars are fun to drive also but that is a learning curve, and again it depends on the mod.

The TUM guys used to break out a Honda Civic race car mod the was a blast but they drove like Honda Civic front wheel drive's and would push like crazy when on the gas in a corner. :shock: :lol:

I'm personally leaning towards V8's at Bathurst, there a natural fit there not that it makes it any easier. We are in the Summer Series with modern high grip cars so going with into a Enduro with a modern high grip type car makes more sense to me then something totally different.

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Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:37 pm
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This is not so much an idea for the actual enduro race but for the week off. How about using an A0 the last one we had at I ended up having to miss for some reason or another.


Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:49 am
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Mostly a bump for this thread but a couple of thoughts as well.

I'm seeing positive reaction to the RSM V8 Supercars and I agree with KJ that we are in the middle of a high grip season and that it would be best to stay close to that. I'd need a reminder but the RSM cars are probably somewhere between the Touring Masters and Enduracers with a heavy car feeling that is stable and soaks up the curbs nicely.

If we do go with RSM V8's, then we'd split into Pro and Sportsman and a staggered start so that we don't have two classes piling into T1.

I should also mention that they are right hand drive which I avoided for the first couple of years of my sim racing so I totally understand any resistance but the driving position is closer to the middle of car than most so relatively minor adjustment to a switch from left hand drive.

We should decide by Aug 30 as the choice could factor into what we do for the Labor Day fun race and it can't hurt to get the earliest possible start on preparations for the Sep 13 Bathurst 1000.

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Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:34 pm
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Tom Lory wrote:
I'd need a reminder but the RSM cars are probably somewhere between the Touring Masters and Enduracers with a heavy car feeling that is stable and soaks up the curbs nicely.


Pretty well. If you tune towards soft springs and low damping then you can hit the curbs pretty hard. Perhaps the only things to note about RSM are that:

- they designed the soft tires to wear fast so there's some tire strategy to use (softs and more stops vs. hard and less stops)
- the brakes are pretty crap until they warm up.. at Bathurst it'll take a lap maybe and on the opening lap, caution is needed for the first few corners but that's not a lot different than HistorX.


Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:04 pm
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I noticed that they skipped "medium" and was thinking that probably was a sure fire recipe for tire strategy to enter into the equation.

More than any other race that I can think of, tires have been a big part of Bathurst 1000 with Touring Masters so we definitely to keep that in play no matter what mod we use.

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Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:26 pm
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Well, I did some laps with last year's winning World Touring Masters Nissan Skyline and I feel absolutely no desire to drive it ever again.

I then tried "IROC 75" which was pretty cool with a nice real car feeling, good modeling and great sounds but my impression is that with it's HGT-like grip, it's not what we're looking for plus it's a spec class with one car, which is probably not what a good group of us prefer despite perfect parity.

Mazda MX5 Cup is too slow for Bathurst and not very exciting sounds. Lots of grip and I'm sure great fun with a pack of them but, again, probably not what we're looking for.

None of my other mods jumped out at me. WES, Grand Am, Blancpain and old GT3 mod are pretty much all in the Enduracers mold.

The Porsche 911 Supercup seems to have two classes but they are all of course 911s and I remember whichever class I've raced with them on R2P a couple of times as very much having rear engine dynamics. The 996s or Flat 6 Porsches from Enduracers would be as good or better and simpler to put together.

I was thinking maybe three spec classes using three cars from the Virtua LM GTPC mod but was reminded why I haven't touched that mod since it came out and not a good fit for this event anyway.

I doubt that it'll be good for Bathurst, either but I have a 70's Can Am mod somewhere. 1000 HP Can Am cars at Bathurst sounds loony but I'll give a try.

I did try the RSM V8s again and I had to force myself to stop. It's the clear front runner for me from driving it and for practical reasons.

While they are high grip, they are much different from Enduracers and are nothing like any of the other Endurance Series events mods.

Adjustments are limited and there are two tire choices.

Aussie V8 Supercars obviously make perfect sense from a real life standpoint.

Maybe some of the GBR weekday regulars will be enticed to join us and, if there's room at GBR, some of us may be motivated to go in their direction and join their series.

I did the quick and simple top speed test routine. All the cars have the same gearing and power peak but unfortunately the gearing is too short to learn anything as their top speeds were all limited by the rev limiter, leaving me with no idea at all about parity. I do suspect that parity was a major goal for the makers, though.

Unsatisfied, I compared each of the HDV related files using ExamDif and they are identical for all the cars; the cars look and sound different but perform exactly the same.

A little over a week to make this decision.

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Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 am
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Old talk, but I cant resist.

Would be nice if we could consider Stock Car Extreme for some event in the future. A special event.
Would open up a lot of possibilities.
Lots of us have it already.

All events here at EFNET are limited to rF1 so far.

Also would be easier because both Sims works almost the same way.

Just a suggestion.


Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:40 am
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AngeloDS wrote:
Old talk, but I cant resist.

Would be nice if we could consider Stock Car Extreme for some event in the future. A special event.
Would open up a lot of possibilities.
Lots of us have it already.

All events here at EFNET are limited to rF1 so far.

Also would be easier because both Sims works almost the same way.

Just a suggestion.
Limited to rF1 because that is what the server is being paid for, can't switch to completely different Sim/Game for a special event or at all. We would have to pay for a GSC server to run anything GSC. And besides not everyone here has GSC either so therefore you would eliminate 2/3rds of the people that race here, not very fair.

I like GSC Angelo and yes it would be great to run events. But those of us that have it and anyone that wants to can buy it and join us on Brian's server on Friday nights.

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Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:31 am
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Understood.
I would not mind share costs.
But will not bring the subject ever again.

Also Im not available at Fridays anymore.

But its ok. Fortunately I have a few oportunities to race this Sim for real.

Thanks.


Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:10 pm
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I was going to keep my mouth shut but what the hell, the simple solution is likely to be obvious to others as well.

Assuming Brian P would be willing to do it, we could migrate to the ISRG server for an event based on GSCE so long as we don't leave anyone behind.

I'm focused on rF1 for obvious reasons but aside from that I'm not all that interested in GSCE as a player and not at all interested as an admin. GSCE is a great sim and I like it but I just don't have time to divide my interest.

In 2016 we should have more off weekends so we could revisit this when that calendar is clearer.

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Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:54 pm
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Next day 02 of September we´re going to have a Bathrust event at GBR with the RSM Mod.
A sprint race and a intermediate (a bit longer) one.

It will be the last race of the season there.


Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:27 pm
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Well, that would tie in pretty well with our Bathurst 1000 on the 13th and Meadowdale on the 6th if we use RSM for either or both.

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The server is set to the RSM V8 mod with Meadowdale, can be switched to Bathurst by vote.

If Bathurst mismatches, don't worry about it for now.

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Track and prospective mod posted: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=2877&p=50893#p50893

The track is the same version of Bathurst that we used for this event last year. It may not be the same as the version that we ran with Trans Am, the differences being mostly if not entirely the run through area at the chicane and the curbing/track surface on the inside of the fast left hander before the chicane. If we change mods, that could influence which version we use. Probably would make sense to use the same one that we use for Trans Am.

The prospective mod is RSM V8s as discussed above.

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Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:39 pm
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Don't worry, not considering them for Bathurst but I did some setup and laps with a Civic Cup mod at Thunderhill.

We need to have a big front drive race.

The car was great once I got the setup decent. Porsche-like turn-in, balance the rotation with throttle and accelerate out feeling for traction through the steering wheel.

Funniest part was being almost completely spun out over 120 degrees but having the driving front wheels pull the front end back around and straighten the car.

_________________
Tom Lory
2014 AES Champion
2015 GTC-1 Pro Champion
2015 SCCS GT1 Pro Champion
2015 AES Champion
2016 AES Champion
2017 AES Champion
2018 GTC-4 Pro Champion
2018 Simca Abarth 1150 Corsa Cup Pro Champion
http://www.loryelectric.com


Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:38 pm
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:45 am
Posts: 723
Location: Brasília DF - Brazil
Here it is a great skin pack for this Mod.
Some great colours! Ive saw a Monster Energy in there, in a Mercedes... ;)

https://mega.nz/#!l5BjUboK!6j1KGDCRhGkC ... h2xS0eXVz8


Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:23 am
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:05 pm
Posts: 6354
Location: Novato, California
Thanks, Angelo. I'm ready to simply slap my number on an existing skin.

edit: mine and Angelo's posts were moved from Bathurst 1000 Required Downloads thread as using the RSM V8s hasn't been officially decided.

_________________
Tom Lory
2014 AES Champion
2015 GTC-1 Pro Champion
2015 SCCS GT1 Pro Champion
2015 AES Champion
2016 AES Champion
2017 AES Champion
2018 GTC-4 Pro Champion
2018 Simca Abarth 1150 Corsa Cup Pro Champion
http://www.loryelectric.com


Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:29 am
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:05 pm
Posts: 6354
Location: Novato, California
The decision has been made.

We're going to be using the RSM V8 mod for the Bathurst 1000.

I'll start a fresh discussion thread and update the Required Downloads thread soon.

_________________
Tom Lory
2014 AES Champion
2015 GTC-1 Pro Champion
2015 SCCS GT1 Pro Champion
2015 AES Champion
2016 AES Champion
2017 AES Champion
2018 GTC-4 Pro Champion
2018 Simca Abarth 1150 Corsa Cup Pro Champion
http://www.loryelectric.com


Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:10 pm
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